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Q&A with Robert Shaw

MarketingNPV (MNPV): Has marketing improved much in the five years since you wrote the book?

Robert Shaw: Unfortunately not. I don't see any signs that it is getting better. Most efforts (to improve metrics and accountability) have been half-hearted and short lived. It seems that someone gets enthusiastic about it in one area for a short period of time, but then the ability to concentrate on it isn't very good. This leads me to raise the question today that maybe measurement should not be predominately a marketing function ... maybe finance needs a much stronger role.

MNPV: And what about today's mantra of marketing being more ROI-focused?

Shaw: We are definitely hearing marketers talking more about ROI today. It's rather like the early stages of CRM, where there were few successful implementations to point to. ROI is a lot harder to pin down than the enthusiasts are pretending it is. Often times it is little more than inspired guesswork in situations where you have insufficient data. I see instances where spreadsheets are used where you just add up the numbers. But ROI isn't about tallying up a 10-line spreadsheet calculation. It's about coming up with sound data or assumptions in the first place. The spreadsheets will then take care of themselves.

MNPV: So what is your assessment of the future of marketing measurement?

Shaw: It's not all doom and gloom. I think the whole subject of marketing measurement and accountability is more likely to grow because you have academics now focusing on it. And in a few years it will be part of the marketing syllabus. It will take quite some time before it works its way into companies organically. It's a mixed bag right now because you would think a lot of big companies would be doing sophisticated things. Some are, but for the most part there is substantial progress still to be made.

Robert Shaw has a Ph.D. in nuclear physics and an M.Sc. in operational research and is currently a visiting professor at a number of institutions, including Cass Business School, London. He is a leading authority on value-based marketing and customer relationship management, and, in addition to his academic research program, he now runs his own consultancy company after a number of years as head of Andersen Consulting's marketing practice. See his value-based marketing forum online at www.vbmf.com.

Read our review of Robert Shaw's book Improving Marketing Effectiveness.